The Learner vs. The Knower: Which Identity is Holding You Back?
The Full Listener's Guide
We explore the concept of growth mindset with Trevor Ragan, founder of The Learner Lab.
You’ll learn the difference between growth and fixed mindsets, why they matter for performance, and three practical building blocks for developing a growth mindset in yourself and others.
Trevor also introduces the powerful equation “Caring + Uncertainty = Discomfort” and explains how combining a growth mindset with a healthy stress mindset creates what researchers call the “synergistic mindset”—the foundation for learning, resilience, and adaptability.
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Quick Preview
The B-A-G Cycle: Belief leads to Action, which leads to Growth - a self-fulfilling prophecy that works both ways, depending on whether we adopt a growth or fixed mindset
Three Building Blocks: Reflect on skills you’ve already built, deliberately learn something new (the “Anti-Talent Show” approach), and understand the neuroscience of neuroplasticity
The 2-Minute Equation: Caring + Uncertainty = Discomfort—reframing how we interpret difficult emotions when doing meaningful work
The Synergistic Mindset: Research shows that combining a growth mindset with a stress mindset significantly outperforms either one alone in health, performance, and resilience
5 Big Ideas
Skills Are Built, Not Born
The core of growth mindset is elegantly simple: we believe we can change and grow, build new skills, and get better at stuff. The opposite - fixed mindset - is the belief that we have what we have and can’t really change it very much.
These mindsets matter because they impact action. If we don’t believe we can improve our physical strength or learn a new skill, we probably won’t engage in the things that would actually lead to that improvement. In a way, that original belief becomes true—not because we lacked potential, but because we robbed ourselves of practice and engagement.
Neuroplasticity: The Science Behind the Belief
A growth mindset says, “I believe I can learn.” Neuroplasticity says, “You can learn.” The research is clear: when we learn stuff, our brains physically change in the process.
Eleanor Maguire’s famous study of London cab drivers showed their hippocampus (the brain region associated with memory) was bigger and more developed than that of normal people - not because you need a big hippocampus to be a cab driver, but because being a cab driver fired those pathways and changed that region of their brain.
Michael Merzenich, known as the father of neuroplasticity, puts it simply: “Virtually anyone can get better at pretty much any skill. That doesn’t mean you’re gonna master every skill, it doesn’t mean it happens overnight, but if it’s a skill and you actually practice it, you can for sure get better at it.”
The Caring + Uncertainty = Discomfort Equation
This simple equation reframes everything.
It shows you how to never be uncomfortable in life: don’t care about anything, and don’t do things that involve uncertainty. (You’ll feel awesome, but you won’t grow.)
It also shows why discomfort shows up when doing meaningful work: if you’re going to do things that matter, there’s going to be uncertainty. You’re probably going to care about those things. Which means you’ll feel discomfort.
The same nervous feeling before a workshop used to mean “I’m not prepared.” Now it means “I care and there’s uncertainty” - same feeling, completely different interpretation and outcome.
The Synergistic Mindset: 1 + 1 = 3
Researchers created an incredibly stressful lab situation (speech with negative feedback, counting backwards by sevens) and tested four groups: taught only a growth mindset, taught only a stress mindset, taught nothing, or taught both (the “synergistic mindset” group).
Group four significantly outperformed all others.
Then they took it to the real world for two years, measuring students from private universities and low-income neighborhoods across real outcomes: academic performance, health, challenge response, stress regulation, and performance.
No matter which group or what they measured, the combo of growth and stress mindset showed improvements across all measures.
Growth mindset says, “I can change.”
Stress mindset says, “Discomfort is normal when doing things that matter.”
Together: “I can grow AND I’m open to the discomfort that comes from growth.”
The Learner vs. The Knower
There are two ways to walk into any room: as the knower or as the learner.
The knower doesn’t want to admit gaps in knowledge. They avoid situations that might expose what they don’t know. Once they’ve mastered something or achieved success, they stop changing. “I did this thing and it worked, so I’ll never change.” This identity limits growth by design.
The learner admits when they don’t know. They deliberately put themselves into scenarios where their gaps might be exposed. They stay hungry even after mastering something. “I can always get better at getting better.” This is the identity that unlocks continuous growth.
Tom Bilyeu’s career transformation came from this exact shift. Early on, he was “the smartest guy in the room” - the knower. Once he reframed himself as “the best learner in the room,” everything changed. Being the smartest person means you can’t admit you don’t know something. Being the best learner means you’re the first to raise your hand and say “I don’t understand that, can you explain it?” That shift unlocked his ability to grow in ways that were previously closed off.
The magic is that being a learner is itself a skill that transfers everywhere. When you practice learning in one domain, you get better at the machinery of learning itself, which makes you better at learning anything.
3 Reflection Questions
What’s one skill you’re currently operating from a fixed mindset about? How would your actions change if you shifted to believing you could build that skill with practice and struggle? What’s the first small experiment you could run?
Think about a recent moment of discomfort or stress. Apply the equation: what did you care about? What was uncertain? Does reframing the feeling as “caring + uncertainty” rather than “something’s wrong with me” change how you might approach similar situations in the future?
What’s your relationship with discomfort right now? Are you seeking it out as reps that build a transferable skill, or avoiding it as a signal that something’s wrong? Where could you “struggle on purpose” in a small way this week to build that muscle?
1 Key Takeaway
Pick one small skill you can’t do right now and commit to 10 minutes of practice per day for 10 days.
The goal isn’t mastery - it’s proving to yourself you can grow.
Each day you practice, you’re building two things: the skill itself and the belief that you can build skills. Getting “kinda good” at something you couldn’t do before is evidence that you’re a learning machine
Further Resources
Trevor Ragan and The Learner Lab:
Website: thelearnerlab.com
Mentioned in the episode:
Carol Dweck - author of Mindset: The New Psychology of Success
Michael Merzenich - Known as the “father of neuroplasticity”
Robert Rosenthal - Research on the Pygmalion Effect
Eleanor Maguire - London cab driver neuroplasticity study
Chris Hemsworth’s Limitless - Documentary series on growth mindset and neuroplasticity